Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow! in College Gymnastics Board Forum

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adamrolltide09	Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!		Lead	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 149 02/04/12 05:27 PM	Tags : None Remove this ad WOW...Just WOW! ---------------------->
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JaDouche	No way that's a 10. Check the knees. NM	#1	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 865 02/04/12 07:00 PM
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Seckflynn		#2	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 61 02/04/12 07:03 PM	JaDouche wrote: I thought I saw this live, but the photos confirm it. For most of her rotation, her legs got totally crossed.
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wareagle13		#3	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 25 02/04/12 07:05 PM	I was gonna say something about the knees, but I didn't want to be the original bearer of bad news haha
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Jessica		#4	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 489 02/04/12 07:49 PM	Yeah, it was a fabulous vault, but you can't really argue against the bent knees. I think it was a case of the judges giving Gutierrez a 9.95 (which I did not have a problem with), and then having Diandra come behind her and throw a stuck, more difficult, and arguably more dynamic vault, and they felt they had to go higher. Outside of Tuscaloosa, I think it goes 9.95. Still a great vault, and great moment for Diandra, but she definitely had slightly bent knees for the last 3/4 of that vault.
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adamrolltide09		#5	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 149 02/04/12 08:15 PM	Kinda figured Douchebag would chime in. I'd say the knees halfway through was b/c of the blind landing. No one is throwing anything more difficult on vault in the NCAA than the 1.5. And anyone throwing it is not executing it like that...w/ the HUGE amplitude, distance and a stuck blind landing. Judges dont have the benefit of stills like this. They do it at live speed. And as mentioned, judges use a base score...meaning if Guti got the score she got, they HAD to give Diandra a 10. It was a deserved 10 that meet and would be most meets...b/c, most likely it is the most difficult vault in any given meet and probably executed the best out of the gymnasts competing the 1.5. It was a 10.
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ScooterTide		#6	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 539 02/04/12 08:53 PM	Was it a Perfect 10, maybe not and Diandra might be the first to tell you so. Most of these girls come from a level where all the college routines would get 9.500's. I'd say it was definitely a collegiate 10.000 and besides..... not like it would have changed the outcome.... or the fact that Bama's the best vault team in the nation.
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JaDouche	Don't blame me for her knees. And yeah, it was visible and obvious in regular time. NM	#7	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 865 02/04/12 09:09 PM
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CalicoIzzy	So here's the question	#8	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 3817 02/04/12 09:26 PM Double Layout Punch Front	Why can't we get back to a world where a 9.8 or a 9.9 is a GREAT score, a 10.0 IS for something perfect and average routines only get 9.5-9.6? Oh, that's right, Bama's the best vault team in the nation, and Cortni Beers' 9.775 last night was TOO LOW (even though she piked down the dismount and took a large step and then another step to stop herself) and us fans NEED TO SEE OUR 10.0s!!
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balabanovv	Why certain posters shouldn't post...	#9	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 434 02/04/12 09:54 PM Giant Gym Fan	adamrolltide09 wrote: Kinda figured Douchebag would chime in. I'd say the knees halfway through was b/c of the blind landing. No one is throwing anything more difficult on vault in the NCAA than the 1.5. And anyone throwing it is not executing it like that...w/ the HUGE amplitude, distance and a stuck blind landing. Judges dont have the benefit of stills like this. They do it at live speed. And as mentioned, judges use a base score...meaning if Guti got the score she got, they HAD to give Diandra a 10. It was a deserved 10 that meet and would be most meets...b/c, most likely it is the most difficult vault in any given meet and probably executed the best out of the gymnasts competing the 1.5. It was a 10. Listen up idiot - any judge who coudn't tell that those knees were bent and those feet were crossed in realtime SHOULDN'T BE JUDGING. And if you can't tell that that isn't a 10.0, under any circumstances, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE MAKING STUPIDASS COMMENTS.
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nekkidgator		#10	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 139 02/04/12 11:22 PM	Remove this ad adamrolltide09 wrote: Kinda figured Douchebag would chime in. I'd say the knees halfway through was b/c of the blind landing. No one is throwing anything more difficult on vault in the NCAA than the 1.5. And anyone throwing it is not executing it like that...w/ the HUGE amplitude, distance and a stuck blind landing. Judges dont have the benefit of stills like this. They do it at live speed. And as mentioned, judges use a base score...meaning if Guti got the score she got, they HAD to give Diandra a 10. It was a deserved 10 that meet and would be most meets...b/c, most likely it is the most difficult vault in any given meet and probably executed the best out of the gymnasts competing the 1.5. It was a 10. Sorry, but Marissa King competed a harder vault in this very competition, the Suk 1.5...even the announcers on Alabama radio said it was the hardest vault being performed in the nation (collegiate) and is one very few attempt even on the elite level (the Yurchenko entrance considered easier). Milliner's vault of course was performed better, great power and landing. Having said that, the bent knees and feet separation on the landing (which the ALABAMA radio commentators pointed out) means 9.95 in my book. Still a very very nice vault.
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gymdandee		#11	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 265 02/04/12 11:23 PM	CalicoIzzy wrote: us fans NEED TO SEE OUR 10.0s!! other than this year, Bama fans haven't seen a 10 since 2005. Morgan Dennis or Kayla Hoffman could certainly tell you of the long frustration. Besides, its been a running joke in the fandom that "they don't give out 10s unless your last name's Kupets."
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gymdandee		#12	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 265 02/04/12 11:28 PM	name calling and all caps, .....we've entered the no spin zone!!!
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GymAngelM		#13	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 432 02/05/12 12:36 AM Giant Gym Fan	adamrolltide09 wrote: No one is throwing anything more difficult on vault in the NCAA than the 1.5. And anyone throwing it is not executing it like that...w/ the HUGE amplitude, distance and a stuck blind landing. As mentioned, King's Tsuk 1.5 is a more difficult vault, and I'd argue that Grable's Pod and See's front tuck 1/1 are as well. As for Y1.5s, DeZiel and Hunter get more height and distance, with cleaner form. I feel like Milliner's vault was stronger last year. I would have been fine with a 9.95, but I do not want to see a 10 for something that I can tell in real-time is obviously not perfect.
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JaDouche	Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	#14	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 865 02/05/12 12:47 AM	Exactly. My favorite part of the vault is at about the 5th photograph down where she looks like she's sitting in a chair.
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xxjules44xx		#15	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 13 02/05/12 06:27 AM	How many times did Hilary Mauro and Cassidy McComb do that vault with straight legs and a stuck landing and still never got a 10? Sorry but the judges should judge what they see.
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Jessica	Mauro and McComb	#16	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 489 02/05/12 09:03 AM	xxjules44xx wrote: How many times did Hilary Mauro and Cassidy McComb do that vault with straight legs and a stuck landing and still never got a 10? Sorry but the judges should judge what they see. Mauro never did that vault with straight legs. I would say her bent legs were worse than Milliner's, and she didn't get nearly the height or distance. McComb's Y1.5 was very nice, but I remember her getting a 9.975 last year, 10 from one judge when she moved her foot on the landing, so yeah, overscores happen everywhere. Ultimately though, scoring was different then. We've seen great vaults the last few years that did not get 10s - people like Tolnay, Hoffman, and Jackson (did she get a 10?) come to mind. This year though, the judges seem hell-bent on throwing out huge scores this year, which has spread to Perfect 10s as well. I typically never see a perfect 10 that I actually believe is deduction-free, so I can't get worked up about Milliner's, but judges should be judging what they see and taking into account visible deductions like bent knees. The high scores that we are seeing go up basically everywhere are inflated, and I'm hoping that the scoring is addressed at some point. I don't want to see undeserved 198s in March.
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washdcgator	Scoring	#17	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 78 02/05/12 11:19 AM Gym Fan	The vault was very nice and on this point we all seem to agree. Was it perfect? Probably not. The problem was not with the individual judges but as others point out with this ridiculous scoring system. They literally had nowhere else to go but to give her a 10 after the precedents of the earlier vaults. The same thing happened last week in Gainesville -- a few early high scores distorted the scoring at the high end, and there is tremendous compression because the range is so narrow. I long for the old days when most routines got between 9.0 and 9.3, a really good routine between 9.4 and 9.5, and 9.6 and up was great and reserved to reward more difficulty and exemplary execution. Remember when Lucy Wener's bar routine, which was often flawless, would get a 9.8 and we are all satisfied? If Utah wanted to shoot for clean execution and safe routines for a 9.5 across the board, then they took a knowing risk against teams who would shoot for the 9.8s with more difficulty (which could easily turn into 9.0s based on the difficulty). We all understood the tradeoff and appreciated the different approaches for what they were. Now, they have compressed the code so much that clearly dissimilar routines/approaches are evaluated as if they were the same. As a fan, I love watching gymnasts throw more difficulty (as long as it is done safely) and am frustrated each and every week when it is not fairly rewarded because of the code. Vaults like Milliner's, Hunter's, King's and I think Grable's should be worth MORE than the standard issue yurchenko full. There also seems to be agreement on that. Although I hate the way the new elite code overemphasizes difficulty and is breaking all the gymnasts, I do like that it allows the judges to reward the top end routines in a way that I, as a fan, feel is recognizable. It just seems odd and pointless to me that every single gymnast on all the top teams is at the very top end of the scale (9.8 and up on a scale of 10). I remember feeling this way in the 1992 Olympics, but by the 1996 Olympics something changed and a 9.637 became a very good score again, and I liked it. Can you imagine if this was the evaluation rating scale at work, and the hardest and most outstanding workers were rated only ever so slightly better than perfectly good but not truly outstanding workers? Maybe their goal is to discourage taking the risks, I admit on this point I am not well informed. If we adopted this sort of approach, the judges could have given Milliner a 9.8 or so, and we fans would feel that the difficulty would have been rewarded with appropriate deductions for form in the air. Overall, when watching the meet, I was super impressed by how the Alabama gymnasts seemed to float into their landings (with a ridiculous number of stuck landings). I think that was the major difference in the meet, and I thought it was fair that Alabama was rewarded for it. Florida's landings on vault and floor were messy, although I did read somewhere that they were avoiding practicing hard landings too much this early in the season to save their legs for later, so maybe that is it. One other thing I noticed: Marissa King got away with a big wobble in her front aerial again!!! So Florida fans cannot complain about judging too much (although i don't think many were). If Florida performs beam like that in the post season, I will be BEYOND thrilled!!!!! I think they will sort out vault, bars and floor, traditional areas of strength.
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Vegas Ute	Well said...	#18	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 2714 02/05/12 12:12 PM Double Layout Punch Front	The vault was difficult, it was "big" and it was stuck, however it was not perfect. I think the issue is that judges "got stuck" by over scoring earlier vaults and had to give a 10.0 in order to reward Milliner. Count me down as another fan that is NOT afraid to see good solid routines get scored 9.70 or even 9.50 so the best routines can be separated. I also think that some sort of ROV (Risk, Originality, & Virtuosity) type scoring makes a ton of sense for NCAA gym. In terms of Vault particularly the time has come (several years ago actually) to DOWNGRADE the Y1/1. even if it is just to 9.95 to give some reward for those vaulters doing vaults that we all know are harder.
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Vegas Ute	Second these thoughts...	#19	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 2714 02/05/12 12:22 PM Double Layout Punch Front	That was a big stuck vault and deserving of a big score but it is not close to being the cleanest Y3/2 performed this year, and there are other vaults of equal or greater difficulty out there. It is one thing to go back in slo-mo and find a little form break, it is tough to rip on judges that have make real-time judgments, but it is tough to defend a 10.0 when casual fans can see a form issue in real time. On the other hand I personally WANT to see harder vaults rewarded when performed well.
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Kristy	Bunching up scores....	#20	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1018 02/05/12 12:33 PM Mega Gym Fan	Remove this ad The point about scoring the lesser hit vaults considerably higher than they should be is the issue--the same happened when GSE scored her 10 a few meets back. I think Ashley Sledge is a great vaulter, but one judge gave her a ten for her vault, resulting in a 9.975--from my view there was no way that was a 10 vault. However, when Geralen followed her, whether it was perfect or not, they felt that they had to award a 10 for a superior vault. We've seen this for years, not just from one team or conference but all over. Clearly, Diandra's knees are bent here--a persistent issue with her--it's a beauty but not perfect (and I am a Bama fan). Last Edited By: Kristy 02/05/12 12:49 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 05:27 PM	adamrolltide09
No way that's a 10. Check the knees. NM	02/04/12 07:00 PM	JaDouche
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 07:03 PM	Seckflynn
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 07:05 PM	wareagle13
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 07:49 PM	Jessica
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 08:15 PM	adamrolltide09
Don't blame me for her knees. And yeah, it was visible and obvious in regular time. NM	02/04/12 09:09 PM	JaDouche
Why certain posters shouldn't post...	02/04/12 09:54 PM	balabanovv
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 11:28 PM	gymdandee
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 11:22 PM	nekkidgator
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 12:36 AM	GymAngelM
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 12:47 AM	JaDouche
Second these thoughts...	02/05/12 12:22 PM	Vegas Ute
FYI, some video links	02/05/12 01:54 PM	Greg
All due respect to Milliner...	02/05/12 05:53 PM	CalicoIzzy
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 08:53 PM	ScooterTide
So here's the question	02/04/12 09:26 PM	CalicoIzzy
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/04/12 11:23 PM	gymdandee
That was sarcasm, in case you missed it...	02/05/12 05:55 PM	CalicoIzzy
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 07:02 PM	yakyak
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 06:27 AM	xxjules44xx
Mauro and McComb	02/05/12 09:03 AM	Jessica
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 12:35 PM	Kristy
Scoring	02/05/12 11:19 AM	washdcgator
Well said...	02/05/12 12:12 PM	Vegas Ute
Bunching up scores....	02/05/12 12:33 PM	Kristy
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 12:42 PM	Debatable 10
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 01:27 PM	Jessica
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 03:45 PM	SDfan4life
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 03:46 PM	bet2424
Sitting very close to the vault table....	02/05/12 03:47 PM	dempseymakepeace
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/05/12 07:58 PM	EliteAthlete10
bringing vault into line...	02/05/12 08:22 PM	balabanovv
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/06/12 09:58 AM	Laschenova
perfection?	02/05/12 08:51 PM	RaRaB43
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/06/12 09:32 AM	Kristy
Sarcasm	02/06/12 09:59 AM	rarab
Re: Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!	02/06/12 11:35 AM	EliteAthlete10
Reality check	02/06/12 01:55 PM	littleirishpixie

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Bama's Milliner 1.5 vault...in pictures. Wow!

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